Monthly Archives: April 2013

A discussion on work of Shanker-Jaikishan on facebook featuring personalities worked with them



In an interview, Lata when asked what she learned from the major MD in her singing, SJ, she said ‘Nothing. In fact, my input was much greater, all the alaps are mine. RK also made a lot of suggestions and SJ made the songs accordingly.’ So much arrogance even at this age? Its a direct insult not just of SJ, but even of all SJ fans too.

Unlike ·  · Unfollow Post · April 8 at 10:26pm via mobile
  • Prasad Sanwatsarkar it’s strange Chandu Kale… when I listened to an audio cassette years before informally discussing with a renowned Marathi music composer, she had very wisely spoke about SJ.. yes, she also said that RK’s interferance was there in his songs since he was a knowledgeable producer (that even Shankar ji also said during our meet).
    and she also said that she likes SJ’s music other than RK banner… and that because they had a complete freedom to come with their talent.. 
    … and now saying this is something unexpected…. 
    in any case, whoever say whatever he/she wish, no one can deny SJ’s extra-ordinary contribution..
  • Chandu Kale That is why it is best that we ignore such ravings and rantings. But they do annoy us.
  • Panshul Mehta agar aisa kaha hai toh bilkul galat kaha hai. aur agar RK itne hi kowledgable the toh SJ ke jaane ke baad kahan gayi vo knowledge ? RK films ke pre SJ and post SJ music mein zameen aasmaan ka farak tha..
  • Sunder Tikamdas Alwani All knowledgeable music lovers know that Lata & Asha are mean persons.
  • Prasad Sanwatsarkar Panshul Mehta ji, as I wrote, whatever it may be but when Chandu Kale asked Shankar ji during our meet, “suna hai Raj Kapoor ji accordion bajate hai ?” promptly Shankarji said, “haan haan bajate bhi hai aur unko sangeet ka bhi achcha knowledge hai..” 
    when the Legend himself admits that, there must be some reality in his statement, isn’t it ? but as we say, if he was so knowledgeable why he insisted only on SJ in his pick period ? that means there was something that SJ only could give what he exactly required..
  • Panshul Mehta zaroor hogi knowledge…but i guess as a appreicator not creator of music  we both are saying same thing in different ways !
  • Panshul Mehta Rafi sahb I feel was really humble and never let success go into his head…see this interview clip for example… how down to earth..

    hi to all mohd rafi fans. for the first time i am uploading rafi sahab interview…See More
  • Jayaiswer Man Pradhan Absolute artist’s absolute comment. Useless to give importance in her versions. Now due to age she is mentally unbalance. HFM now there are many female artist better than Lata in her time.
  • Chandu Kale Raj Saab knew music very well, he could sing (he and Mukesh had the same guru), play several instruments and could even compose. ‘O basanti’ I think is his tune. Jaikishan also said in his talk on the radio that RK knows music very well and loved to play rhythm. He had also played in SJ recording takes. The difference between SJ and other MDs is that SJ understood what RK exactly wanted, they could read his mind, others did not.
  • Harpreet Singh Lata and asha..they will never speak good abt the mds who made them…and wil never speak much abt rafi sahab….really mean..
  • Sudarshan Pandey Annoying. Lata has this habit of insomniac talks. Sometimes she acknowledges, sometime betrays her own statement. Even hardcore fans of Lata Maneshkar accept in public about SJ’r role in heightening of her career………their work complemented each other. God save her, she is ageing. Karan Johar has acquired right to use Ajeeb Daastan Hai ye in his forthcoming film.
  • Sudarshan Pandey What RK conceived SJ executed his dream through their music. The best example is “Ye Raat Bheegi-Bheegi….” being the sole song of its kind outside RK banner. RK’s best work was that he used to inspire and throw a challenge to SJ for getting best out of them. But this can be true not for all of RK songs………..”Ramaiyya Wasta Waiyya………” is one of the examples which SJ conceived first then after lot of Manthan it became what we listen.
  • Rajiv Sharma Dear all this is what our world is..but even more worst..if we are on there when one is no more and one is there…all know and well adverse what and where sucess story became for these bith legends..however this is also true one think if you are on a level to others somehow , look for soem measuremnt to bring a MM down to see at height…very sad phenomenon..and to a bad level..this is how Angreze understood Indians and they rule…not good for our indianism…
  • Shyamal Mitra I also have seen some interviews and shocked me that if she mentions about music directors she seems to have amnesia about S J. At least she could have said…they were all great composers rather than picking up few names at random or by choice!
  • Shyamal Mitra Now days, I hope there are many talented male and female singers who can provide good entertainment and they all make a good living rather than dominated by “one” monopolize the industry!
  • Sumit Mitra Dear sj fans,I would like to enhance your knowledge regarding this controversy.
    what Lara bai has said is partially correct. In any song everybody has something to contribute like the singers,arranger or musians.As for myself in most of the songs that I have played,the fill up of either sign line or antra was my idea.Raj Saab used to supervise every aspect of the song be it tune or arrangement or instrumentetion.Thank you that will be all for today.
  • Panshul Mehta Sumit Mitra ji , privilege for all of us to hear your inputs as an insider. As a musician , i personally feel that unless the instrument player has some independence over what he/she is playing, the emotion will not come out in the piece being played. I’m sure you will have more to say on this
  • Kishwari Jaipuri Sudarshan Pandey ji …mere sher pe ghaur farmaiye sab samajh aa jaayega …..Apne Haathon Se Taraashe Hue Patthar Ke Sanam Aaj Butt Khaane Mein Bhagwaan Bane Baithe Hain ……
  • Jagdish Kumar Mehta You have hit the nail Mam Kishwariji.It sums up all.
  • Kishwari Jaipuri Thanks a great deal Jagdish Kumar Mehta ji for agreeing
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Lata Ji ab apne jeevan ki sandhya bela mein hain. Is budhape mein sathiya gayi hain. Kya kaha jaye? Donon Mangeshkar behanein (Lata and Asha) arrogance aur ungratefulness ke liye jani jati hain. Raj Kapoor was a great film maker not a music director. Had he been a composer in his own right, he would have composed music of all his movies from Aag to RTGM. I can’t understand on which basis people have developed a wrong notion about raj Kapoor that he was an ace musician (especially piano accordion player). He was not else he would have composed music himself like Charlie Chaplin and Satyajit Ray. I would like to request all SJ fans and other also a well that see carefully the you tube of famous song “Harr Dil Jo Pyaar Karega Woh Gana Gayega from “Sangam”, where in through out the song Raj Kapoor is playing wrong notes on piano accordion. This single example is enough to show that Raj Kapoor was no way different from those other actors jinhein theek tarah se na guitar pakadna aata hai aur na hi drum stick. Yes I do agree with Sumit Mitra Sir, that a lot of inputs are given and taken by one and all during the making of songs and music be it an individual musician, or a singer or may be a lyricist, or the director but the basic music is always composed by the main composer. One more thing about these two Mangeshkar sisters. In every subsequent interview they seem to contradict what they said in the previous interviews. Lata Mangeshkar herself on several interviews accepted that it was Jaikishan, who made her sing tandem songs originally composed for Mohd. Rafi Saheb, at very high pitch.
  • Panshul Mehta kya point pakda hai wrong notes vala  maan gaye ustaad !!
  • Panshul Mehta bahut baar dekha hai ki gaane mein notes upar jaa rhe hote haen aur actor ke haath ulti taraf jaa rhe hote haen…
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar SJ music had more variety in non RK films. There are only 20-25 films produced by RK. What about 100+ films composed by them.
  • Chandu Kale You can’t compare RK with ANY other actor. He knew music, he could sing, he understood ragas, Shankar and Jaikishan have both confirmed in their interviews that he knew music and that he came up with ideas on which SJ built the songs as he wanted. As Lata had also said, it is in non-RK productions where they could show their mettle. Lata and other actors given freedom put in their own inputs if approved by SJ.
  • Panshul Mehta i’m not debating that he knew music.he must have understood i agree. my latest comment was in reply to Pradeep Kumar Gupta ji’s observation that most of the times, in picturization of songs, the notes being ‘acted’ out by on screen actors don’t correspond to the actual ones being played.. to do that the actor should know the exact notes being played.. having good musical taste and knowledge and figuring out the exact notes for a tune are different things i’m sure we’ll agree..

    (this post is branching out into many sub-discussions,  and interesting ones for sure!)
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Respected Chandu Kale Sir, Raj Kapoor was having great musical sense, no doubt, and being the director of the film he had full right to sit at musical sittings with a lot o suggestions. Even today’s director s do have their own demand from the composers. My only point based on the observation is that had Raj Kapoor been so great in music himself (as many people do give him due credit for the songs and background musical scores at the expense of Shankar-Jaikishan) he would have repeated his previous success with Laxmikant Pyarelal, RD Burman and later with Ravindra Jain. Even in IT sector clients don’t know how to develop software for their requirements but they always give inputs to the software developer, because they pay price for the service. One more example I would like to quote here. A good critique may have a good sense of game/sports but he may (necessarily) not be a great player himself. Similarly a great player may not be a good critique and sometimes appear as biased. The classic example of this is Pele, the black pearl from Brazil, he is a worst critique and on occasions appear to be a biased critique. This is also true in case of Mangeshkar sisters. The whole world knows that OP Nayyar was the mentor of Asha Bhosle during her initial years of formation, but she always quotes RD Burman over any other composer, even at the expense of her father in-law great senior Burman Da. Hope I could have made my point clear. Regards. Yours
  • Panshul Mehta IT sector vaale point se kaafi relate kar sakta hun
  • Chandu Kale Pradeep Kumar Gupta ji you have said most of what I had intended to say. I agree of course. The question about playing the correct notes: I say from my own minuscule experience that it is extremely tedious to synchronise the finger movement in a mock-playing shot with the score, as the slightest phase difference in synchro is noticeable. It would have quite accurate -and no editing headaches- if his playing had also been recorded live AND used in the song. Another point about about why RK was not his own MD. What all was he expected to do? He was a fantastic photographer, editor, director, composer. He had to employ different people to carry out those jobs. Consider building construction: The owner wants something. An architect proposes his ideas, which the client keeps modifying. The draughtsman / CAD man transforms them into views, lower down, they create sectional Drawings, then detailing, then materials, structural engineer does something the architect does not usually know about, gives his material requirements and the whole thing is entrusted to a main contractor who employs subs for shuttering, plastering, plumbing, painting etc. Same with producing even a single song.
  • Rahul Sakhawalkar no comments
  • Jagdish Kumar Mehta With due respect to all,I may point out some thing very important which has escaped the attention of our learned listeners.Apart from Raj K.’s own films SJ have given equally top class music even in those films which were not RK’s own productions .Chori Chori,Anari.Aashiq,Ek dil sau afsane are examples.Now will anyone say that SJ worked with RK and got all his inputs in all these films and RK had all the time in the world to give TUITIONS to SJ for all films,his own and Others’?The fact is that out of their gratitude and regards for RK they gave their best music in his films.And what about Junglee,Jab pyaar kisi se hota hai;Raj Kumar.Professor,April Fool.Gumnaam and scores of other SJ musically hits?Did RK again coach SJ for these films?The ABSOLUTE and IRREFYTABLE fact is thar SJ knew their job well and gave due respect to good inputs and suggestions.They deserve credit alone for their works.
  • Chandu Kale We are all on SJ’s side, that’s for sure.
  • Panshul Mehta i personally would not compare an art like Music to Building Construction. and as for playing exact notes on screen; i meant to point out entirely wrong sequence of notes rather than sync or phase lag..
  • Chandu Kale Of course they did deserve. The others were not as good.
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Respected Chandu Kale Sir
    Thanks for your valuable and insightful inputs.
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    April 9 at 2:04pm via  · Unlike · 2
  • Ajay Kanagat ”’sabse bada nadan wohi jo samjhe nadan mujhe, kaun kaun kitne pani main sabki hain pehchan mujhe”. If lata was so talented she could have become a md.
  • Amitabh Nigam Shri Chandu Kale ji, is the interview you are referring to, on internet or in print or audio/ video? 
    In my humble opinion,this is required to be listened to/read completely ( not out of context) before judgements are passed.
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar That was on IBN-MARATHI channel, on sat sun
  • Sudarshan Pandey Pradeep bhai, Chandu ji, Jagdish ji, Sumit daa and other friends have given enough reasons and points in making a song good that is the exact scenario before a song is given birth. I would like to cites Shankerji’s one of interview in which he has admitted Rafi Sahab’s role in making “Main Chali Main Chali” song from film Professor. The tune of Antara what SJ had conceived was different. During rehearsal Rafi Sahab asked Shankerji, how it will be if he begins the antara from Shadaj note and sang it before SJ. That suggestion was granted on the spot and the song got recorded taking Rafi Sahab’s input. After all it shows the intensity of every person involved in song making process for bettering it. About RK’s role I can cite just one example of film Bobby in which LP somehow managed to take the pressure from RK’s suggestions and produced SJ type of music or someone can say it RK type of music, but what after that ? They were not ready to go further, completed Prem Rog and SSS and then quit, after Bobby there was no RK’s music in any of the production house be it for RTGM, Dharam Karam or Biwi O Biwi. As Far as Lata ji’s memory ourShyamal Mitra da has said very appropriate word ” amnesia”. Thanks a lot Kishwari Jaipuri ji for your observation which is to the point. In the end it is, “Apne Haathon Se Taraashe Hue Patthar Ke Sanam Aaj Butt Khaane Mein Bhagwaan Bane Baithe Hain “
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Dear Sudrashan Bhai Saheb, Lata Mangeshkar was present at the recording studio for the rehearsal of the title song of Mera Saya. Madan Mohan was a bit puzzled. He was not getting a befitting raga for the composition and Lata just made a suggestion, “Madan Bhaiyya, kyoon nahin is gaane ko Nand Raag mein record karte hain?” In Karz LP were not getting their famous song picturized on Jitendra, “Mast bahaaron ka main aashique”, sung by Mohd. Rafi Saheb was even suggested by Rafi Saheb. For the song “Roop tera mastana from Aaradhana, it was Kersi Lord who did the prelude with the association of his close friend and associate Manohari Da. So yeh chalta rehta hai. Ise Urdu mein islaah (suggestions) kehte hain.
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar She is having amnesia about all MDs who dared to use other singers. Sister’s only rival was Mohd Rafi. Now there are maximum live shows are held in honor of Mohd Rafi worldwide, this makes them jealous and helpless. before they used to say the best singer is Mohd Rafi, now they say Kishore Kumar. There will be more amnesias in future.
  • Rajiv Sharma Look at Film Fare Awards with RK and without RK..will speak a lot it’s own who is who -:))
  • Ajay Kanagat Well said anwar hussain……. this is the fact.
  • Ajay Kanagat sudarshan bhai aapne mere dil ki baat hu ba hu keh di.
  • Sudarshan Pandey Bahut badhiya lag raha hai Ajay Kanagat bhai aapke aaj ek arse ke baad group par dekh kar……….aur kitne sahi samay par aap aaye…sabse important yahi hai……..thanks. Anwar Husain Sakharkar bhai….Kya kahoon itna naam-paisa-ruaab kamaane ke baad bhi, if these Mangeshkar sisters feel zealous and frustration …. Khudaa bachaaye………Rajiv Sharma ji, aapki baat in behno ke dimaag mein naheen aayegi. Ab to woh kisi competetion mein bhi naheen hai, phir bhi unki yah mentality mere samajh ke baahar hai…………Lagta Hai Karan Johar ki film mein SJ ka ek geet jaate hi in sab ke kaan khade ho gaye hain…………………
  • Ajay Kanagat ek family ko baithe baithe har sal 2 … 3 crore agar royality milti hain toh woh kisi aur ko aage aane nahin denge.
  • Sudarshan Pandey Ha ha haa sahi kahaan Ajay Kanagatbhai…………Santosh naheen hain……..Dar asal inko news mein rahne ki aadat hai…… jahaan dekha ki bahut dino se unke baare mein kuchh aaya naheen, kisi chamche journalist ko sponsor kar ke ek Shagoofa chhod deti hain…….. Aise journalist rupaye mein paanch kar ke milte hain.
  • Ajay Kanagat ek aise hi journalist mujhe mile they to unko maine kaha tha ek din aisa aayega jab doodh ka doodh pani ka pani ho jaayega…… asli/ naqli ki pehchan ho jaayegi, ek sher likh ke use sunaya ” aache aur bure kai tujhe gyan nahin hain/ sach aur jhoot ki tujhe pehchan nahin hain, tu kya chalaega faisle ka teer, haathon main tere kaman nahin hain.
  • Vinod Kapoor She however conceded to Javed Akhtar in a TV interview that SJ ” revolutionized film music” which no one could ever do….not even RDB….SJ are instrumental to shake the music out of traditional mould and made it more contemporary and open in a traditional era… related to changes society was witnessing then ! Well, arrogant, yes she indeed is….the recent Mohd Rafi comment conveys lot ! Still one likes her voice and the gifted range and quality !
  • Sudarshan Pandey Vinod Kapoor ji, Hamesha comments change karte rahna unki aadat mein shumaar hai……..kya kiya jaaye……….Khai unki aawaaz ke hi to deewane hain hum log
  • Chandu Kale CRamchandra was probably the only MD who did not accept suggestions. He insisted that the singer should sing exactly as he says.
  • Rajiv Sharma if They have to say all songs come with their suggestion that were the reasons for sucess , why they not saying about those MD to whom with they sung and no one is knowing them even now a days..For me for any song , composer is one who visualise the things and construct the things , it is fair if some one adding some flavor , afterall sucess goes to everyone…
  • Nandu Belvalkar Chandu. Every playback singer is a vocal instrument… like a Sax or Accordion. They have no singing of their own. MDs decide what they sing and how they sing. Their singing is on being directed never of their own volition. So they sing their notes like a musician plays his. The only plus point is that human voice gives language to music but then again that language is of the lyricist. So? What is one talking about?
  • Amitabh Nigam Well expressed, Nandu Belvalkarji.This has differentiated the roles of singer, music director and lyricists so clearly!
  • Prasad Sanwatsarkar Nandu Belvalkar ji, on a slight different note but related to your comment, if you remember grt OPN always used to say that MD and Lyricist are the real creators of any creation.. “sirf hum longonko (md) bhagwan ne gaane kee awaaz nahi di isliye in gayakonse gawana padta hai…” those were his words… 
    and that’s why he didn’t accept the ‘Lata Mangeshkar Award’ of MP govt stating its wrong to award the MD in singer’s name.. .
  • Chandu Kale CR used to say singers are tape recorders. Some are good, some are not so good.
  • Amitabh Nigam It is a fact that the hindi film song ( audio) is a joint venture of music director( and his arranger & associated instrumentalists), lyricist and the singer who emotes.In a film however, the presence of actors, dance direction, art direction and direction( by the film director) also play important roles. Take the dream sequence of Awara
    :a complete experience due to all the above departments doing their work excellently!
  • Chandu Kale Prasad Sanwatsarkar, OP was one bindhast MD who spoke his mind. This reminds me of a tongue-in-cheek remark by Khayyam Saab, when asked about qawwals ‘जिसे ठीक तरहसे गाना नहीं आता उसे हम क़व्वाल कहते है!’
  • Sudarshan Pandey ha ha ha………kya baaat bataayee aapneChandu Kale ji
  • Prasad Sanwatsarkar @ Sumit Mitra : Sir, we don’t deny the contribution of singers and musicians in any musical creation… as we can see the singers can take the composition to the new heights thru their superb voice and rendering (also even sometimes bring down its personality thru average performance)… but again, they are the performers and not the ‘creators’… 
    in this long thread, everybody’s objection is that such a unmatcheable singer not only is accepting the major contribution of Shankar-Jaikishan in her singing career but also taking the credit to her for the success of their songs as what Chandu Kale has written while starting this subject… 
    it’s indeed a sad part…
  • Panshul Mehta Nandu Belvalkar ji , regarding your above point in which you mention – “Every playback singer is a vocal instrument… like a Sax or Accordion. They have no singing of their own…….they sing their notes like a musician plays his. The only plus point is that human voice gives language to music but then again that language is of the lyricist…..” 

    As a musician, I have to disagree with it.

    Going by the reasoning in your point, should we say that Music director and Lyricist are only ones adding emotional touch to a piece of art, and all other artists who actually render it are robots operating on instructions ? 

    MD brings a tune, Lyricist gets words, the people who play and sing it also matter. Singing and Instrumentation are as artistic activities , as are composing and lyric writing.Composing, Orchestration, Lyrics, Singing, Instrument playing, Instruments themselves are all important building blocks of a song and demand emotional involvement on the part of Composer, Lyricist, Singer, Musician. It is not fair to assume the ‘feeling’ part being restricted to MD and Lyricist alone. 

    Composing comes first, agree. And, final rendition is as important if not more. Rafi sahb was not a composer, but can we say that he had no singing of his own. Or would any other singer have achieved same impact on singing his(MD’s songs as you say) songs. Agreed he had a gifted voice, but he also put his feelings in the rendition. We can’t say that MD spoon fed the feelings in him.

    Instruments don’t have feelings of their own, but ask any musician, if he considers his instrument as something without soul?  Musician plays an instrument with his feelings but , Instrument also inspires a musician to play it with a certain feeling. It’s NOT a one way communication.

    Does the electronic music has the same charm as the olden time ‘real instruments’ ? that’s why Instruments are also important. 
    Would two musicians play an instrument in same way ? No, every involved musician brings out his soul in his own unique way even if the composition is same.

    Even as an audience not directly connected to making of the song, I’d say that even if you or me sing a song by someone else, we do it with some involvement and expression. Art, is something which is present in every human in varying degree. We listen to the song is stirs up some art and emotion which is already present ‘inside’ and we hum it or sing it or play it, in our own ways. That is also art; and full of feeling  

    Theoretical Creation and Rendition both are art forms and equally important ones

    Well quite a long comment..!
    but a sincere thanks for making me reflect on some deep seated thoughts which may not have come out otherwise
  • Prasad Sanwatsarkar Mr Pradeep Kumar Gupta, pl refer my second comment… with reference to what you have written – 
    ‘I can’t understand on which basis people have developed a wrong notion about raj Kapoor that he was an ace musician (especially piano accordion player).’
    when Shankar ji himself told us that RK could play accordion (may be he was not an ‘ace’ player as u said), who are we to deny that ? though I am totally for SJ’s side here, one must accept the qualities if somebody is having atleast when it is confirmed by an authentic source..
    that is what I feel… thnx
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Dear Rajiv Sharma Ji
    Khoob kahi aapne. Bilqul sahi. It’s true raj Kapoor gave them break but they excelled due to their sheer brilliance and versatility. They are the only Indian music composers, who have been and still being copied by the composers till date and the days to come. Be it LP, KA, or RDB just a few to name.
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    Wednesday at 10:34am via  · Unlike · 5
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Dear Vinod Ji
    Apne kisi pehle ke post mein maine kaha bhi hai Lata Mangeshkar ke baarey mein-“An artist at par, an individual below average.”
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    Wednesday at 10:39am via  · Unlike · 4
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Dear Chandu Sir
    Even OP Nayyar was not open to any suggestion. Asha Bhosle in one of the episodes of Indian Idol quoted OP Nayyar as saying, “music director main hoon ya tum, jaisa bola hai waisa gao.”
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    Wednesday at 10:44am via  · Unlike · 6
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Dear Rajiv Ji
    Bilqul sahi farmaya aapne. Ise Urdu mein “islaah’ kaha jata hai. Not only in music but in other forms of art and even in literature (more broadly in every field of life wherever creativity is required, suggestions are sought and offered. Yesterday I quoted the example of Madan Mohan when he was composing the title song Mera Saya. An apt suggestion as demanded by the situation of the song came from Lata Mangeshkar and was approved and dittoed by Madan Mohan Saab. It does not mean that he was less than a genius. Prasiddha chhayavaadi kavi Jayshankar Prasad wrote “Kamayani” and the proof reading was done by another stalwart author par excellence Acharya Shivpoojan Sahay. These are a few anecdotes I have shared here at this forum just to make my point clear.
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    Wednesday at 10:51am via  · Unlike · 4
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Abhi Chandu Sir se baat huio aur ab Nandu Sir bhi mukhatib hain. Sir I fully agree with you for what you have said.
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    Wednesday at 10:53am via  · Unlike · 2
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Prasad Samwatsarkar Ji
    OP Nayyar was not strong headed without genuine reason. Khuddari isi ko kehte hain. Is mamle mein Naushad Saab se shayad chook ho gayi, When he accepted Lata Mangeshkar Award, this gesture of his was scoffed by music director Shankar-(Jaikishan). Shankar Ji was quoted as saying by media that how could he (Naushad) accept an award in the name of his junior. The whole world knows he was not only senior to Lata Mangeshkar but also one of her mentors. Bilqul sahi farmaya aapne.
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    Wednesday at 11:00am via  · Unlike · 6
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Chandu Kale Sir aur Sudarshan Bhai 
    Meri jaankari aur anubhav se kawwal woh hai jo paan khakar lagbhag cheekhate hue ek hi line to 20 baar repeat karte hain paintare (posture and pitch of their voice) badal-badal kar.
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    Wednesday at 11:04am via  · Unlike · 4
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Even Johann Sebastian Bach, Wolfgang Amedius Mozart, Ludwig van Beethoven, Franz Schubert, and all other contemporaries known for their outstanding contribution to western classical music owe a lot to their musicians even today. But still musicians who play their quartet or quintet or sonata or any symphony are the mere performers not the creator of those great timeless musical gems.
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    Wednesday at 11:10am via  · Unlike · 4
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Dear Prasad Ji
    I received a few comments on what I wrote about Raj Kapoor and I fully endorse with the valid points raised by Chandu kale Sir that its very difficult to finger sync the musical piece played on an instrument, but my point is though this is not possible but just pay your attention to the postlude of the song and you will realize it was simply ridiculous the way Raj Kapoor was playing keys piano accordion. Another example. To validate my point I would further like to quote another example when a musician himself is playing the instrument on screen, and see the difference. Leslie Godinho, the name you might have heard, the most illustrious drummer from Goa played drum in O Haseena Julfon Wali Jane Jahaan for RD Burman in Teesri Manzil, and on screen also no body else he himself happened to play his drum. The way he played was just out of the world, but the same feel you will not have while watching Raj Kapoor. bade logon ke saath aksar (myth) mithak jud
    jate hain. Any way what is the truth either Raj Kapoor knew himself or God knows. People may differ from the point I tried to make here.
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    Wednesday at 11:20am via  · Unlike · 5
  • Sumit Mitra Dear Amitabhji ,you are quite right.Its a matter of collective team work where every individual is equality important.
  • Prasad Sanwatsarkar Pradeep Kumar Gupta ji, I fully agree the observation of being RK’s incorrerct fingering on an accordion in ‘sangam’. In fact we were surprised to note that after knowing that RK could play accordion in reality as told by Shankar ji himself. Forget of exact notes to be played on screen, atleast he could easily ‘show’ his fingers flow as per the music piece (notes played originally) which also he failed to…
  • Sumit Mitra You are
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Ya Prasad Ji that’s the point.
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    Wednesday at 11:32am via  · Unlike · 2
  • Sumit Mitra Dear Pradip,are you sure it was Leslie who was seen playing the drums in teeri manjil.However I will check on that.
  • Harpreet Singh True pradeepji.. naushad ji se chook ho gayi…
  • Sumit Mitra Now I want to say something about Raaj sab as a musician.At the time of recording background music whenever a music piece was ready for recording, he used to pick up any percussion instrument like maracus or tambourine and play with orchestra.May be he did not play the accordion in Sang am or the trumpet in Agree. 420 but all the same he was no less than quilified musician.
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar @Harpreet Singh ji, naushad ji se kya chook hui
  • Jayaiswer Man Pradhan I heard great legend directors like Bimalroy, Gurudutta, Hrikesh Mukerjee , Mehabob Khan etc also had very good knowledge in Music. However they never tried to project such unnecessary prooganded as RK did. In case of SJ, when ever journist or filimi people talk abot music they always praise RK. Even recent days some awards were presented to RK ‘s music and neither organizer nor the recever of award spoke about SJ. Some where these type of attitude seems to be intentional or may be lack of knowledge. Such situation I hardly hope any recoganization of great artists like SJ, Shilendra ji, Mukesh ji etc in Karan Johar’s progarme. There should be some kind of age limt of voters. Otherwise such KJ contest will wipe out all the great legends from history book.
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar Any legend is judged by the people of same time period. Madan Mohan or RDB getting more prominence now will not diminish status of Naushad, SJ, OPN, C. Ramchandra, Roshan etc. They have proved themselves and no need for any award or recognition for them. Their music will live forever.
  • Jayaiswer Man Pradhan Anwar Shaheb I fully agree! I also think karan Johar’s voting TV programe is useless though I already voted my favr. legends.
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar Voting on TV channels and opinion polls should come under RTI
  • Jayaiswer Man Pradhan Anwar ji What is RTI BTW?
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Yes Sir
    I watched an exclusive interview of Leslie Godinho claiming that not only in recording but also on silver screen he happened to play drum in his inimitable style. And what was the performance? Soothing to both ears and eyes as well.
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    Wednesday at 1:30pm via  · Unlike · 3
  • Chandu Kale Thanks to film music we get to listen to a tremendous variety from all over the world. Old timers may deride film music as having no originality, but no other genre of music offers such wide expanse.
  • Harpreet Singh Talking abt opinion polls…in cnn-ibn greatest indian polls…..after initial public polls…rafi sahab was at number 11 and lata was in some 20s position(list contained personalities from all fields like sports,politics,arts etc)…but then the channel people picked their own top which rafi sahab was omitted and lata was introduced in top 10…so such is authenticity if media these days…music channels will only talk abt rdb-kishore-lata-asha…while great mds like sj,naushad,opn are just conveniently forgotten like they never exist….
  • Chandu Kale Voting? Who needs voting? Charlie Chaplin never needed it. If KJ audience doesn’t remember them, that is THEIR own loss.
  • Harpreet Singh @anwarji…i was talking about naushadji accepting lata mangeshkar award. …the same was rejected by opn…..
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar There was Hridaynath Mangeshkar award for Asha Bhosle By Lata as chief guest.
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Respected Sumit Sir
    My point is about the claim of a few people who made Raj Kapoor an accordion player, without knowing the fact. He might be a great percussionist. But the thread of this discussion was started with Lata’s superlative claim with full of arrogance, and ungratefulness belittling the actual and the first and foremost contribution of the music composer, who does perform a much bigger task in making of film music than any one else. During the making of Bobby, she told LP that it was not SJ but RK himself who was instrumental in making music for the movies under his banner. Had RK been so proficient musician, why couldn’t he repeat his previous success while working with LP, RDB and KA? Even though I am not a musician, but you may remember, in one of my recent posts, I quoted Kersi Lord playing Yamaha YC 45D. Any body of this forum or even out side the forum, when will go through my post, may draw a wrong impression about me as a proficient musician. Though
    this is at first hand not correct.
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    Wednesday at 1:44pm via  · Unlike · 4
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar Lata praised RK to demean SJ. She was angry when SJ used Sharda’s voice
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Jayeshwar Ji
    Jo dikhta hai wahi bikta hai. No kin of Shankar and Jaikishan remained in the world of filmdom. Yeh industry unko turat bhool jati hai jo samne nazar nahin aate. Albatta RK ki family pichhale 4 generations se filmdom ki duniya mein hai. Ab filmy chamchon ko Shankar-Jaikishan se koi fayda to hone se raha albatta RK ke beton se aur unke next generation se ho sakta hai, shayad hota bhi hoga, kaun jane for this propaganda. Its intentional, and its staged. Ab dekhiye na Lata Mangeshkar ka double standard. On the insistence of Raj Kapoor, she was forced to sing mai Ka Karoon Ram Mujhe Buddha Mil Gaya, par Shankar Saab ne shayad josh mein aakar ise apni ladayi bana liya aur Lata Mangeshkar ko by force gana pada. Ab baad mein Rk ne to patch up kar liya Lata Ji ke saath reh gaye Shankar akele. And the rest is history. Younger generation RD BUrman se pehle kuchh janta hi nahin. This is again staged and sponsored. During his life time he was neglected by the
    producers and directors for the new comers. Us samay kisi ne RDB and KK ke deadly combination ki baat nahin kee thi. Even Asha Bhosle RDB ki death ke baad ghadiyali aansoo baha rahi thien, but nevere ever took care of her old aged widow mother in law, who had single child RDB. Yeh donon behnein aisi hi hain. They change color faster than a chameleon. 
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    Wednesday at 1:56pm via  · Unlike · 8
  • Sreekanth V Lakkidi RK is a real ‘showman’ that is for sure. ANY picture you take from SJ sitting for a RK movie, the photograph given outside is such that all of them listening RK!
  • Ajay Kanagat Pradeep kumar gupta i 100% agree with what you have said,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, sab matlabi hain.
  • Sumit Mitra I am not quite sure whether Leslie used to appear in silver screen but the only musician I can reffer is Radhakanto Nandi who used to appear in all the mujra scene in Bengali movies
  • Surya Kant Sharma theek hi to farmaya hai aapne shankar jaikishan hi ek aisi hasti the jinhine lata ko pehchan dilai apni pehli hi film barsat se hi.
  • Devendra Bairathi लता की आवाज मदहोश कर देती थी जब वो किसी सन्गीतकार द्वारा निर्देशित होती थी…और जब वो अपनी बात पर आती थी तो कईयो के होश उडा देती थी…..लता लता जी बन गयी उन महान सन्गीतकारो (Shankar-Jaikishan, C.Ramchandra, Roshan etc.)की वजह से जिनके नाम लेने तक मे गुरेज था जवा(young) लता को…
  • Rajiv Sharma fantastic and interesting comments all over this trail post..Pradeep Jee aapke post to la jabab the ..thanks all for such a interesting and meaningful posting.. i enjoyed a lot…respect all…
  • Ramesh Sharma Unfortunately Big Artists also carry Big egos.Be it Lata ji or Shankar ji himself.Both are/were big egoists.Lata ji was slightly insecure also.She started earning at a tender age of 13 for the family ,remained unmarried,settled all sisters initially and must have felt insecure with the new singers like Sharda ji or even her own sister Asha.
  • Sumit Mitra He did succsid in Bobby through L.P.Moreover the song Beshak mandir masjid toro was Raaj Saab’s contribution.
  • Sumit Mitra Dear Bittu Saab,first of all itsn the suggestion then its a question of how well it is executed. Supposing I tell my chef turn cook mutton curry wit
  • Bittu Sharma Sorry I could not understand your 2nd comment fully sumit Sumit Mitra ji plz complete it…Raj kpoor and other who used to give suggestions to SJ are like a customer wants a custom made pizza wants some particular ingredients … Pizza cook cooks the pizza as per his demands .. Now how can anybody say that the customer here is the pizza cook!!!!!? I mentioned here Rajkpoor the person with a demand and SJ as the cooks or chefs who fulfilled his demands amazingly….Simple…
  • Amitabh Nigam In my humble opinion, we should stick to offering comments on the work of artistes rather than their personal traits, unless we know them personally.Then , too, it will remain an opinion. Reports in print and electronic media are often lop sided and sensational, with an eye on circulation and TRP.
    As regards the comments of artistes in interviews, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but obviously the views if a person who has been in the midst of tge action will have more weightage than observers who are spaced in time and distance.
    I also feel ( at the cost of repitition) that the only grading of works of art can be on sales figures, if authentic. Regarding quality, beauty is in the eyes of beholder.So, it is futile to compare two artistes on their quality of work. Pasand apni aobi, khayal apna apna !
  • Panshul Mehta So, this interesting and spicy thread has branched into many sub – discussions 
    – Lata not giving due credit to SJ
    – Lata/Asha ego
    – SJ’s due credit stolen by RK
    – Raj Kapoor playing accordion
    – + some more sub topics
  • Panshul Mehta as far as carrying the instrument and playing it properly on-screen is concerned, i was watching ‘har dil jo pyar karega’ from sangam again last night and couldn’t help notice that each time the main accordion piece(with which the song starts and which is rightly the identity of song) is played Raj Kappor ji was playing it from different positions, which was musically wrong. ( Unless his die hard supporters want to claim that the accordion had scale transposing feature, which he was actually using that time ‘on screen’  ) Nothing against him , but now that we are so deep in to scrutiny in this post, i thought let me share this observation with all my friends !

    Movie : Sangam Music Director: Shankar Jaikishan Singers: Lata Mangeshkar, Mukes…See More
  • Panshul Mehta on the contrary, i would like to point one actor who carried instrument very naturally (I don’t know the actor’s name). The actor in Kya hua tera vada from ‘hum kisi se kam nahi’ though he was also not acting out the notes correctly, but was carrying the instrument quite naturally. There were some guitar songs picturized on him in 70s and I feel he did a good job carrying the guitar quite naturally and gracefully. Although ( I say again, NOT playing correct notes )
  • Dinesh Shethia ^^ Really it remained very interesting post. THANK YOU all for sharing info / opinions with utmost honesty and remaining on the track. Great !
  • Jayaiswer Man Pradhan All the music lover has good idea of music and here among us also most of friends can give their idea to MDs. Our idea sometime works and maya b much helpful to MD though theoretically we r not trained. I am sure most us can play musical instrument like harmonium, k board, guitar or can sing song just for our own enjoyment. I have collection of guitar, sitar, mandolins, harmonium, tabla etc. it does not mean I can instruct Sajid Wajid or ARR. We r basically ameture music lovers. Obviously RK is from film world and he had contact with lot of musicians, he can play music or sing. Naturally he might have given his opinion in SJ in RK’s Productions. Such advised he must have given to all his RK teams like camera man to spot boy . It won’ t b surprising the journalists or Chamcha will write some day song like ” jish desh maya Ganga ….” , was written by RK himself.
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar What about Dilip Kumar in Kohinoor
  • Jayaiswer Man Pradhan I heard Dilip Kumar bought Sitar and learned with guru for the shooting of Kohinoor. I think Dilip kumar does not required unnecessary propaganda !
  • Panshul Mehta Jayaiswer Man Pradhan ji, regarding your comment “… does not mean I can instruct Sajid Wajid or ARR…..” don’t worry about this. i think a genuine SJ fan can definitely give strong suggestions to present day MDs
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar There is a difference between propaganda and information
  • Jayaiswer Man Pradhan Panshul Mehta ji please don’t laugh I have met SJ several time in dream.  unfortunately when I woke I remember their physical existence. So I am their crazy fan
  • Ali Peaceboy It is so shameful a great singer like Lata ji said that about the greatest music director of Bollywood ,but we know why she said that because SJ replaced her to other female singer ,Even Lata ki had problem with SD Burman ji also ,SD Burman ignored mohd Rafi in 1970’s but Mohd Rafi never said anything bad about him or his son that was greatness of a singer…..Mohd rafi spoke about greatness of SD Burman and SJ…..
  • Chandu Kale There is a massive difference in the stages between being able 1) to play an instrument to match the 10 seconds on the screen,2) being able to play enough to set a song by oneself, 3) playing professionally as Grade 1 when you can play 100% on receiving the score, 4) understanding ALL instruments 5) writing the score for each musician (as arranger) 6) being able to coordinate all of them (conductor) and 7) composing own music (composer) knowing ALL of the above and conveying to your arranger (a complete composer). SJ (AND RK) were at this 7th stage. If they accepted Lata’s suggestion, it is their choice and greatness. RK had the capability but did not score his own music because he had SJ to go through the process and he could use that time to look after other departments. And he was SJ’s customer. Customer is the King, he pays SJ and has full right to get SJ to customise the score as he likes.
  • Sudarshan Pandey Validly said Chandu ji.
  • Jayaiswer Man Pradhan It seems Several fans also would like to prove that RK was very knowledgable in music and he has main command in music department. I read somewhere that he even claimed Awara hoo was composed by him. My view is that RK’s family , Lata bai ji, and other his chamcha might have some interest to upgrade RK. But we as sincere fan of SJHS should confidently agree that all the music composed for RK (up to MRNJ ) are contribution of SJ. Regarding suggestions etc SJ must have got from all the directors, even Shilendra , Hasrat Saheb, Dattaram, Sebitian sab but never try to highlight by media. I think Shilendra and Hasrat Saheb had very good knowledge of Raga. They were fitting lyrics to tunes of SJ for years . I won’t be surprised one day RKs juniors , or Lata ji claim that songs of RK were written by RK himself and just edited by SH.
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar When we see any beautiful building or structure, we wanted to know who is the architect.
  • Chandu Kale Yes, the architect designs it according to the customers wishes and the customer can dictate changes. An architect never places a single brick or welds a single girder. He gets people to do it.
  • Ali Peaceboy If we speak about best songs of any singer in Bollywood his or her list there be SJ songs………
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar We can learn any language or musical instruments, but there are no institutes to learn how to write poems/lyrics or compose a tune. This is inborn talent with imagination.
  • Chandu Kale Composers and mathematicians are said to have the highest IQs.
  • Panshul Mehta so the discussion again turned to building construction and music ! i just love this thread  

    but (as Chandu ji said) that SJ and RK both at stage 7 in terms of musical talent ? i find that bit hard to be convinced with. 
    when RK said goodbye to SJ ; RK’s music quality dipped considerably.. that should say it all.. few seconds of SJ music was a more cherishable memory than whole scores of non SJ RK films
  • Chandu Kale Yes, I also stopped seeing RK movies after that. I realised that my love for RK camp was actually for SJ.
  • Panshul Mehta 100 baaton ki ek baat keh di aapne Chandu Kale ji
  • Harpreet Singh I heard that in ‘ram teri ganga maili’…the tunes used were actually banked SJ tunes….
  • Jayaiswer Man Pradhan Sudarshan Pandey bhi can any body translate Keshari Jyapuri’ ji shayari. I am very poor in Urdu !
  • Sumedh Belsare Its okay…maybe because she herself being at par with that level, she can say whatever she likes…although we know the truth! 
    But I even heard that once in an interview, she was asked to rate a few music directors on a scale of 100%…in that she had rated SJ as 60%, which was said to be the biggest rating she had ever given to any music director…
  • Kishwari Jaipuri Jayaiswer Man Pradhan ji which shayari are you talking about
  • Shabbir Jetpurwala Mr. sumedh sb.,we all are music lover s, but wt due respct , i say , may be you are right about wt lataji said for s /j musc. But i hv an intrvw of lataji [past] whr she has mentnd SALIlDA best m/d among all othrs.
  • Bittu Sharma kiswari ji yeh appka vo sher khe rahe hai ‘pather ke sanam khud bhagwan bane bathe hai’ i think
  • Sumedh Belsare Mr. Shabbir ji, that’s what I said in my comment…
    “We all know the truth”  
    And what I mentioned was just what I had heard…
  • Kishwari Jaipuri Shukriya Bittu Sharma ji …………Abhi translate karti hun
  • Kishwari Jaipuri Jayaiswer Man Pradhan ji it means .Oh Stone God I have Sculptured you from my own hands nd I have made you a Devta from a stone nd today you sit in the temple proudly as a God (bhagwaan) forgetting I made you with my own hands
  • Kishwari Jaipuri This is what people do once they achieve fame they kick out the source who made them popular
  • Bittu Sharma KISHWARI JI ek taraf yeh sare comments or ek app ka yeh sher…. sab kuch bayan kar deta hai.. kisi or baat ke jaroorat he nhi..
  • Kishwari Jaipuri Bittu ji Tahe dil se shukriya aur nawazish …
  • Jayaiswer Man Pradhan Kishwari Jaipuri ji Thanks lot for translating in English. Now I understood real weight of your Sayar. As I am Nepali studied in India , I understand only Hindi.
  • Kishwari Jaipuri My pleasure Jayaiswer Man Pradhan ji …Aabhaar
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Rajiv Ji shukriya. 
    Kehne ko to bahut kuchh hai magar kis se kahein hum, kabb tak khamosh rahein aur sahein hum, jee karta hai ki duniya ki harek rasm aaj utha dein, deewar jo logon ne jhooth ki utha rakhi use gira dein, kyoon sulagate rahein dil hi dil aaj duniya ko yeh bata dein ki haan humko mohabbat hai mohbbat hai mohabbat- Shankar-Jaikishan aur unki har cheez se. Ab dil mein yahi baat idhar bhi hai aur udhar bhi.
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    Thursday at 8:42pm via  · Like · 3
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Dear Ramesh Ji
    My observation about Lata’s so called insecurity is a bit different from that of yours. She was not afraid of Sharda Ji as Sharda Ji doesn’t stand in front of her in terms of quality of voice, pitch, clarity, timbre, diction and emotions. However Lata Mangeshkar was also not unaware of the musical prowess of the duo, the force to be reckoned. She had only anxiety that Shankar was losing miserably (?) his beautiful compositions to Sharda at her expense. She in an interview was quoted as saying, “Ishque mein logon ko andha hote to dekha tha aaj pehli baar behra hote dekh rahi hoon.”
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    Thursday at 8:57pm via  · Like · 4
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Panshul Ji
    Waah the accordion had scale transposing feature. Lol hahahaha.
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    Thursday at 9:05pm via  · Like · 2
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta The name of the actor I think is tareeq Anwar, a regular feature of Nasi Hussain’s earlier flicks.
    Thursday at 9:07pm via  · Like · 1
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Jayaiswar JI
    What an impeccable logic? Hats off to you. I just wanted to convey this only. Regards
    Thursday at 9:09pm via  · Like · 1
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta To bata doon Shankar-Jaikishan are the architect.
    Thursday at 9:16pm via  · Like · 1
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar Builder can suggest to architect what he want. Now there is engineer and material supplier.
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Ji Harpreet Singh Ji
    Shankar Ji had even decided to drag Raj Kapoor and Ravindra Jain (credited for the musical score) to the court for not giving due recognition to the original composers of the song, “Sun sahiba sun pyaar ki dhun.” But before he could move to the court, his final call came.
    Thursday at 9:23pm via  · Like · 3
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Nothing strange in it! She might have said so in the interview you are talking about. Now again go and take her a fresh interview and for sure she will end up with another all time greatest composer (?) She vacillates like a pendulum. Hindi mein kehte hain “Bina pendi ka lota.” No doubt Salil Da was a great composer with an impeccable command over poetry. He had an excellent poetic sense too. She often talks about her brother Hridayanath Mangeshkar as the greatest composer Indian Film Music has ever witnessed. Lol hahahaha. 
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    Thursday at 9:31pm via  · Like · 3
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Waah waah Kishwari Ji irshaad! Kya khoob kahi aapne. Here the creation itself is more important than the creator and forced the creator to sit in the corner.
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    Thursday at 9:35pm via  · Like · 4
  • Sumit Mitra Dear S.J fans ,R.K said good bye to S.J only after Jaikishen expired.
  • Sumit Mitra Salil da was not only a great composer and poet but also a great arranger of music.Where as other music directors used to leave the arrangement to him,Salil da used to do it himself. I should know it well,because he is the guy who advised me to come to Bombay likewise Basu and Manohari.
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar But he used extensively western symphonies in his compositions and arrangements.
  • Sumit Mitra Every body has their own style. S.J copied a lot from Abdul Waheb;Bappida took a lot from Abba and Osibisa.the list is endless.let me refresh my memory and I will come up with some more.
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar I didn’t’ say he copied. Most of the time arrangers use tunes from different sources. Even arrangement of ‘pyar bant-te chalo’ of LP was straight lift from Hitchcock movie.
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar RD & Bappi L were responsible for blatant copying of western tunes.
  • Harpreet Singh Still RDB is the only md which is talked abt in media and being hailed as the best…
  • Panshul Mehta yahi toh durbhagya hai Harpreet bhai
  • Panshul Mehta difference between SJ and others using tunes from other sources is that when SJ used somebody else’s tune ; they gave it an entirely new life. The original artist should have been thankful to SJ for giving new dimension and a better execution of their composition.
    I want to hold your hand – Beatles vs Dekho ab toh kisko nahi hai khabar – Janwar. 
    Marguerita – Elvis vs Kaun hai jo sapnon mein aaya 
    Piccolissima Serenata vs. Soch rahi thi kahun na kahun
    I’ll get you – Beatles vs. Jaane bhi de mujhe sanama – Around The World

    SJ’s version could put original to shame. They didn’t copy tunes; they uplifted them..
  • Ajay Kanagat so true and u have rightly used the word ”uplifted them”.
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Yes Panshul Ji, 
    I too have heard the songs of Beetles and Elvis, SJ versions are always better than the original ones. But this is not true in case of RDB and Bappi Lahiri. They stole shamelessly without working on the original composition. Apart from this SJ’s music has also been lifted by the Hollywood biggies and others without acknowledging their name. Jaan-Pehchaan Ho Jeena Aasaan Ho-“Gumnaam” is a classic example. Not only in a famous Hollywood flick “Ghost World”, the song has been adopted in toto but also in the promotion of Heineken Beer and one more version, once I was just browsing google I came across. It was a live public performance. The songs from Awara, Shree 420 need no mention in this connection. Once SJ were synonymous with foreign locales for their westernized compositions, much more popular and the first choice among their contemporaries.
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    Yesterday at 4:52pm via  · Unlike · 9
  • Kaushik Maitra I think it would be better not to bring in the names of any other composers; the discussion should stick to SJ only. Otherwise this group will be no different than any other “fan clubs”.
  • Panshul Mehta names of others are bound to come up when we discuss relative merits of artists of a time period…
  • Kaushik Maitra But the era of SJ was never that of RDB or Bappi Lahiri; they were not “contemporary composers”. Though RDB started his journey in 1961, he didn’t compose more than 10-12 films in that decade. And when RDB was the topper, that time SJ had started losing their old fame (might be the sudden demise of Jaikishan was a reason).
  • Shabbir Jetpurwala “”” the discussion should stick to SJ only. Othewise……sir again i m mentng, tht i had meddled in convrstn with complete concrete proof.if any body is offnded by this , my sincere apology 2 all members ,and no hard feelings.thnx to alldear music lover frnds and may u all remain BLESSED.
  • Harpreet Singh Shabbir fan is a rafi fan by default
  • Jayaiswer Man Pradhan I support Harpeet ji’s version !
  • Kaushik Maitra And what Lata Mangeshkar has said in an interview (that also at her age of 84) need not (rather should not) be taken so seriously. In the past also, she said that Sajjad Hussain’s contribution in her career was much more than any other composer. I am s…See More
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar Any controversial comment from BHARAT RATNA will be scrutinised.
  • Kaushik Maitra Not fair at her age of 84; even our parents make controversial comments. Before scrutiny, think once what would have happened if the lady was not there!! Just think of “Tumhe yaad karte karte”, “Tera mera pyar amar”, “Ruk ja raat thaher ja re chanda” or “Man re tu hi bataa kya gaoon” in the voices of any other female singer
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar That was not comment, it was statement. I am her fan and I don’t expect that from 84 yrs old.
  • Kaushik Maitra Just ignore their comments and concentrate on their works  Asha ji never agrees that O.P. Nayyar saab had any contribution towards her career; now shall we fight against her?? We all know the truth and have the correct information, isn’t it? That is enough! No need to analyze a comment from any stalwart; moreover if he/ she has crossed the age of 60.
  • Kaushik Maitra Lata ji always had issues with contemporary artistes; it is a known fact. She had issues with Rafi saab, S.D. Burman saab and many more. But at the same time, it is true that Hindi film music was always in need of her golden voice . If that was not t…See More
  • Jayaiswer Man Pradhan Jayaiswer Man Pradhan Jayaiswer Man Pradhan Kaushik Maitra Saheb Lata ji is giving negative views and creating problems to SJ since her younger age. We all should agree that she is greatest artist of millennium but she has also proved that great artist…See More
  • Bittu Sharma IF lata is a great artist, it does not suggest that she should not be greatful to those people who provided her with the opportunity to show her talent…..VARNA NA JAANE KITNE LOG HAI JO APPNA TALENT APNE UNDERR LIYE HE KHATM HO JATE HAI….as there i…See More
  • Ratnakar Natu We get “Lataji” once in thousands of years. It is quite natural to have difference of opinion with other co – artist. Lataji and then great MD were complimentary and supplimentary to each other.
  • Ali Peaceboy I agree that we get LATA JI once in thousands so but Like SJ and Mohd Rafi never……..
  • Harpreet Singh Ali sir u just stole my words..abt to post that only
  • Chandu Kale There was only one great singer who was also a clean, helpful, unassuming, uncomplicated and great person. Mohd Rafi.
    12 hours ago via mobile · Unlike · 8
  • Jayaiswer Man Pradhan Ratnakar Natu sir Lata ji was participating single person marathon in her time. Great Rafi began his carrier during KL Sigal and other veteran time. Rafi Saheb never thought any newcomers as threat. Rafi Saheb is great artist and great human being. Maya b such human being maya not come to earth even after thousands of year.
    11 hours ago via mobile · Like · 4
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta So what kaushik Ji. Even SJ were junior to Naushad, Anil Biswas, Khemchand Prakash, C Ramchandra, but are considered as one of the all time greatest composers. Now people claim RD Burman was the most experimental and innovative. Younger generation may …See More
    10 hours ago via  · Like · 5
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar RDB had the maximum Asst Directors and Arrangers with him.
    10 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta RDB was never at the top neither rate wise nor in terms of no of movies composed. The top slot was always reserved for LP who some believe replaced SJ after Jaikishan Ji’s untimely sad demise. During the late 80 and early 90s RDB miserably started los…See More
    10 hours ago via  · Like · 7
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Sau baar chilla ke jhooth bolkne se jhooth bhi sach ho jata hai.
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    10 hours ago via  · Like · 2
  • Anwar Husain Sakharkar ” Tum mujhe youn bhula na paoge ” A tribute to SJ & Mohd Rafi
    10 hours ago · Like · 4
  • Bittu Sharma some stupid and people with lack of knowledge consider RDB great …they may not have even a bit of knowlege about SJ’s greatness… the pity is this our media has never highlighted their great work…
    10 hours ago · Like · 8
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Respected Chandu Sir,
    Kya kahoon jo baat aapne keh di. Aapne hamare muh ki baat chheen li sir. He was angel like person. Another good and kind hearted accomplished singer is Manna De.
    Pradeep Kumar Gupta
    10 hours ago via  · Like · 3
  • Devendra Bairathi RD एक अच्छे सन्गीतकार थे, लेकिन Shankar – Jaikishan भारतीय सिने सन्गीत के महान सन्गीतकार युगल रहे है ….देशी वाद्य हो चाहे विदेशी, उनका बेहतरीन उपयोग, शास्त्रीय सन्गीत पर आधारित धुन या विदेशी गानो पर आधारित धुन बनाना उनके लिये सहज था, कम्पोजर के रूप म…See More
    9 hours ago · Like · 10
  • Jagdish Kumar Mehta While agreeing to Pradeep Guptaji’s views in the entire matter by and large,I have a little different opinion about RD Burman’s place in 70s and early 80s when he was considered as a youth icon.His music in Caravan,Yaadon Ki Barat,Hare Rama Hare Krish…See More
    5 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
  • Ali Peaceboy RD Burman best came when singer was Mohd Rafi and actor Shammi Ji but SJ gave best with all singers,only think we can say about RD was son of a great music director also he was a great but cant be compare music director like Nausand,Madan Mohan,OPN,SJ,LPRavi and few more..(that what I think maybe i am wrong)
    8 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
  • Pradeep Kumar Gupta Jagdish Mehta Ji
    It was Shankar who was unfortunately sidelined not the team Shankar-Jaikishan after the sad demise of Jaikishan. Until Jaikishan was alive the duo was still numero-uno in terms of number of movie release and the highest rate they charg…See More
    6 hours ago via  · Edited · Like · 7
  • Jagdish Kumar Mehta Pradeepji,Sirji,I have no issues on the subject.SJ as a team were unbeatable but the kind of music the youth of 70s wanted was not coming from Shankerji.The time was ripe for their five year reinvention as Gopalan Natrajanji had rightly said in one of…See More
    5 hours ago · Like · 3
  • Gopalan Natarajan There is a saying – “what is history but a fable agreed upon”. It is either written by the victors of a war or in a social context those who lived the longest and had continued influence over what was said and written. Beyond a point we can keep debati…See More
    5 hours ago · Edited · Like · 2
  • Sumit Mitra Dear Kaushik ,I fully agree with hell with all the int
    4 hours ago via mobile · Like · 1
  • Sumit Mitra Dear Kaushik ,I fully agree hell with all the interviews and criticism,what they created is simply out of this world
    4 hours ago via mobile · Like · 3
  • Shiv Shanker Gahlot Some years later Lata will say that …”in fact, I refused to sing for Shashidhar Mukerjee film”…
  • Sumit Mitra Dear Gagdishji,thanks for your observation regarding Shankarji R.D and L.P.Shankarji couldn’t do much without Lara Bai.L.P and R.D always ran neck to neck in horse racing term.Their music in HUM AGNIPATH and KHUDA GAWA was fantastic.How com R.D flopped miserably against BOBBY. And what do you mean by Shankar Jaikishanian music?
    3 hours ago via mobile · Unlike · 3
  • Sumit Mitra Dear Pradeep can you give single example of L.P stealing S.J’s music.I was permanent member of their orchestra for thirty long years so was Hari Chourasia and Shivkumar Sharma.R.D depended: on Kersi Lord,Bhupendar and Manohari.Occasionally they played for L.P also.The song from “Intequm”I played the electric organ Kersi was on the vibrophone and Manohari on the grand flute and the result was ??????
    3 hours ago via mobile · Unlike · 3
  • Jagdish Kumar Mehta Sirji,anything resembling ,concerning and/or relating to SJ becomes Shanker Jaikishanian.This is not my original phrase.I got the idea way back in 60s when Amin Sayani,while compering the 15 minutes promotional radio programme of any SJ film on Rradi…See More
    3 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 4
    3 hours ago · Like · 7
  • Sumit Mitra Dear Kaushik ,you are absolutely right .I give you 100 upon 100
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  • Sumit Mitra As a musician I don’t understand how the msic of
  • Harpreet Singh Sudarshanji..why u wanna close this thread…so.much interesting discussion was happening….j
    2 hours ago via mobile · Unlike · 2
  • Ramesh Sharma Dear friends who have already posted above,may I just point out that good music is always distinguishable,whether it is SJ or RD or LP or OP or Roshan or Salil Chaudhary or Naushad Saheb.No body is disputing the innovation of RD in Precussion and Guita…See More
  • Sumit Mitra I beg your pardon sir.How old are you?I am in my seventy seventh year.However age does not matter in this case.your view’s are welcome.
  • Harpreet Singh RDB is all marketing… substance all marketig created genius..
  • Ramesh Sharma Dear Harpreet Singh ji RDB was a brilliant music director .For eg listen to O mere pyar aaaja from bhoot bangla,
  • Sumit Mitra Thanks Sudarshanji.I want to conclude this thread by saying that both quality and quantity wise S.J were the greatest.
  • Shyamal Mitra Jai Hind!
  • Harpreet Singh Am not saying he was bad..he has some good compositions…but his.melodies were not soul stirring..if he comes to.mind only thing that comes to my mind is sm cabaret numbers(monicaaaa..)…nothing great..serioualy if i have to listen to sm great music …See More
  • Panshul Mehta I heard/read a few interviews of Pyarelal ji from LP. His words about SJ were full of respect and praise and he hailed them as greatest in hindi film music. I don’t have idea of politics going on , if any. But yes there was influence of SJ in KA (e.g….See More
  • Sudarshan Pandey Harpreet Singh ji, Please try to understand the nature of this group and other groups. You have raised about RDB’s marketing. Which is true but who prevents fans of other music directors to market their idols ? And I beg your pardon that We are free to praise SJ beyond limit, but we should not say anything about other music directors which can hurt their fans. After all what is the need of that ??
  • Devendra Bairathi Friends ! Topic started Lata’s attitude, I think an Idea….whenever I will coment for any Lata’s Song….I will write such as…Nice song, Lata sung the song very well under direction Shankar-Jaikishan The Great MD Duo/ MD Sd Burman/ Roshan..etc…..Ha ha ha.. certainly I am Not wrong.
  • Mukund Marulkar Friends…i think ,the title of thread was Lata verses SJ. The above 221 comments concludes only greatness of ShankarJaikishan Music not unfolding Lata virtues,that’s all. So better to close this thread here only and discuss SJ music with inputs.I am just a “KAANSEN” and not analyser
  • Sudarshan Pandey Thanks a lot Sumit Mitra daa, Nandu Belvalkarji, Panshul Mehta ji, Harpreet Singh ji,Shyamal Mitra daa, Ramesh Sharma ji for your interest and beautiful words in this thread making it Grand success.
  • Sudarshan Pandey And Chandu Kale ji to initiate this thread which has attracted our Jagdish Kumar Mehta ji, Gopalan Natarajan,Pradeep Kumar Gupta bhai, Ali Peaceboy ji,Devendra Bairathi ji to give their comments.
  • Sudarshan Pandey I also thank Bittu Sharma ji, Anwar Husain Sakharkar ji, Jayaiswer Man Pradhan bhai, Ratnakar Natu ji, Kaushik Maitra daa who has left the group jusst bfore few hours for he doesn’t like criticism of other music directors, which gives him pain.
  • Sudarshan Pandey My thanks to Shabbir JetpurwalaSumedh BelsareKishwari Jaipuri ji, Sundar Sunder Tikamdas Alwani ji andPrasad Sanwatsarkar ji and Ajay Kanagat too who have given their frank views here. Thanks all.
  • Himanshu Tripathi I have tried to gone through most of the comments given above… No doubt peoples tried to divert the flow and essence of original post… Yet very articulated way of discussion i perceived here… No one can deny the contribution of SJ for Indian music…They were best and will remain forever… also admit the music talent of RK sahab… its our great fortune that we have got the great song from RK banner….

excellent flashes of the accordion to depict infinitely more than what words can say. highlightpieces

for facebook1By S.S. Murthy

With the advent of the song Chhod gaye balam… SJ’s very first film Barsaat based on “The Waves of the Danube ” the accordion strikes the melancholic strains of seperation, as it goes on to manifest itself eventually as the signature RK tune symbolic of expression the RK love saga even in a non SJ film like Bobby.

In Boot Polish you have the child urchins whispering to one another travelling on a Bombay suburban train while carrying out their Boot polish service, suddenly find Raj Kaooor across sleeping on a seat and flash comes the strains of the accordion depicting the well identified Raj with the Awara title tune. It was simply a brilliant flash creating the desired sizzling effect.

Come Shree 420 as you have the brilliant Nadira shunning her heroine status to play the vamp in a suductress role, as she finds her laundry messenger, bring in her clothes and finding himself in a nonplussed condition at no answering the call, enters the hall, sits gaping at the lavish luxury of the spread when his gaze comes, across a pack of cards and attempts at a mimicry of distributing the cards to a playing four; with three Jacks, followed by three Queens, three kings before finally placating himself of Three aces, as he is suddenly siezed of an astounding “Shabaash…” by Nadira and a brilliant piece of electrifying effect SJ give with the accordion in the background,
as the scene continues with Raj pleading innocence, to finally falling a prey to the willy guile’s of Nadira, to the club where Raj is used as a jockey to amass a fortune, as she then dumps him later after bashing Raj, as he claims to be the cause..
Now what is found is the audio visual delight played on the background on the accordion the various shades of the tune …”Kisiki muskurahaton …….which was to be deployed by SJ later in a non RK film Anari in 1959. Simply superb is all that one can say.

You also have a shade of the same accordion played here also in Sangam when Raj returns back “jeeta jaagtha in one piece…” and is now welcomed by Radha’s parents and as his eyes search for his beloved Radha comes down the stairs to the accompanying brilliant piece of accordion, simply electrifying as one hears in dumbfounded silence, save the ecstasy creating accordion.

And again you have Marina the circus trapeze artiste, bidding farewell to Raj at the airport, mutters something in Russian, as an onlooking Dara Singh asks Raj on what she said in Rusi bhasha
as Raj recalls an old song and flash comes the brilliant accordion before the scond antara of the Awara song.Simply out of the world Sir

You also have a scene in DAPP where a sad Meena Kumari is depicted to a heightened devastating effect by the accordion piece of the title song.

I thought I will contribute this way towards the Instrument called Accordion which is as inseperable as the mandolin, violins, flutes to SJ’s musical legacy.